p.11 - "...the endless process of working out how to live as God created us to live."
p.11 - "Times change. God doesn't, but times do... letting go of whatever has gotten in the way of Jesus, and embracing whatever will help us be more & more the people God wants us to be." (this, I think, is Rob's take on the EC movement)
p.12 - "For many people the word 'Christian' conjures up all sorts of images that have nothing to do with who Jesus is & how He taught us to live. This must change."
p.13 - "...every generation has to ask the difficult questions of what it means to be a Christian here & now, in this place, at this time."
** Some people's faith is like a trampoline ~ it bends & flexes & moves (springs = doctrines)... for others, their faith is like a wall of bricks ~ pull one out to examine it, and the whole thing becomes unstable & threatens to crumble (bricks = doctrines). (my version of page 26)
p.26 - "..for him, faith isn't a trampoline; it's a wall of bricks. Each of the core doctrines for him is like an individual brick that stacks on top of the others. If you pull one out, the whole wall starts to crumble. It appears quite strong and rigid, but if you begin to rethink or discuss even one brick, the whole thing is in danger."
p.26 - "What if that spring [doctrine] was seriously questioned? Could a person keep jumping? Could a person still love God? Could you still be a Christian?"
p.27 - "I affirm the historic Christian faith, which includes the virgin birth, and the Trinity, and the inspiration of the Bible, and much more. I'm a part of it, and I want to pass it on to the next generation. I believe that God created everything, and that Jesus is Lord, and that God has plans to restore everything."
p.27 - "God is bigger than the Christian faith."
p.27 - "...one of the things that happens in 'brickworld': you spend a lot of time talking about how right you are. Which of course leads to how wrong everybody else is. Which then leads to defending the wall [doctrines]... you rarely defend a trampoline. You invite people to jump on it with you."
p.28 - "The problem with brickianity is that walls inevitably keep people out. Often it appears as though you have to agree with all of the bricks exactly as they are or you can't join... Jesus invites everybody to jump."
"...saying yes to the invitation doesn't mean we have to have it all figured out... I can jump and still have questions & doubts."
p.30 - "Maybe that is who God is looking for ~ people who don't just sit there and mindlessly accept whatever comes their way."
p.32 - "The Christian faith is mysterious to the core. It is about things and beings that ultimately can't be put into words. Language fails. And if we do definitively put God into words, we have at that very moment made God something God is not."
p.33 - "Truth always leads to more...truth. Because truth is insight into God & God is infinite & God has no boundaries or edges. So truth always has layers & depths & texture...
... the mystery IS the truth."
(I don't know whether I agree with that one or not... letting it stew for a bit)
p.35 - "It's possible to believe all the right doctrines & not live as Jesus teaches us to live."
p.44 - "It's possible to make the Bible say whatever we want to, isn't it?"
p.46 - "[The Bible] has to be interpreted. And, if it isn't interpreted, then it can't be put into action... it's not possible to simply do what the Bible says. We must first make decisions about what it means at this time, in this place, for these people."
p.47 - "When you followed a certain rabbi, you were following him because you believed that rabbi's set of interpretations were the closest to what God intended through the Scriptures."
(Rabbi's interpretations = "yoke")
p.56 - "Somebody in your history decided certain Bible verses still apply & others don't." (previous page gave examples)
p.56 - "Now some people may get a little uneasy about this discussion on interpreting the Bible & say, 'We shouldn't make it say what we want it to say'... I agree, but everybody is resting on a set of interpretations, and we need to be honest about it."
p.56 - "What is accepted today as tradition was, at one point in time, a break from tradition."
p.60 - "..the Bible is about today." (Yay! He's agreeing it's relevant!)
p.61 - "...some call this the more-than-literal truth of the Bible." (that it gives us strength & direction because of the meanings we derive from it)
p.64 - "...the Bible meets us where we are. That is what truth does."
p.78 - "...God is always present. We're the ones who show up."
p.78 - "For Paul, truth is available to everyone. Truth is everywhere & it is available to everyone. But, Paul takes it further because, for him, truth is bigger than his religion...For Paul, anybody is capable of speaking truth. Anybody, from any religion, from anywhere."
(At first I wanted to argue this one... I automatically wanted to shout, 'That's not true!' But, Bell says Paul bases this off Romans 2:14... that the truth "is known to them instinctively". Looking at it like that, then okay. I'll agree... for now.)
p.79 - "Paul affirms the truth wherever he finds it.... he doesn't just affirm the truth... he claims it for himself... what they said was true so he claims it as his own."
(Note: this could be dangerous... can't claim it unless it's Biblically based, I say. Otherwise you're opening yourself up to the devil's sneaky ways.)
** Bell goes on to encourage us to use Philippians 4:8 ("Whatever is true, whatever is pure...") & says to "claim [truth].. because it is from God. And you belong to God."
p.80 - "I live with the understanding that truth is bigger than any religion & the world is God's & everything in it."
(Later on this same page, Bell says "All things are mine". Does this mean he could just go up and take something that belongs to someone else & say, "It's mine 'cause all things are God's, therefore all things are mine, and I'm claiming it"? How far would he take this? On this one, I think Bell got a little carried away with himself...)
** Bell has issues (it seems) with:
- limiting truth
- limiting faith (p.83)
- empty ritual
- obligation (p.97)
p.84 - "My understanding is that, to be a Christian is to do whatever it is you do with great passion & devotion. We throw ourselves into our work because everything is sacred." (Col.3:17)
p.85 - "This truth has significant implications for how churches function."
p.85 - "A church is a community of people who are learning how to be certain kinds of people wherever they find themselves, so they can do whatever it is they do "in the name of the Lord Jesus"... God isn't in one building only. Doing things for God happens all the time, everywhere..."
p.87 - "...to be able to quote these prophets & poets, Paul obviously had to read them. And study them. And analyze them. And, I'm sure he came across all sorts of things in their writings that he didn't agree with. So he sifts & sorts & separates the light from the dark, and then claims & quotes the parts that are true."
(I just LOVED this passage, as it goes right along with my new motto: "Take what you love & leave the rest"! Whoohoo! Yay, Rob!)
p.88 - "...being a good missionary... means teaching people to use their eyes to see things that have always been there; they just didn't realize it... it is searching for the things they have already affirmed as real & beautiful & true, and then telling them who you believe is the source of all that."
p.97 - "Not 'I have to', but 'I get to!'... Not obligation, but celebration... Not duty, but desire."
p.98 - "...what a church should be like: strip everything away & get down to the most basic elements. A group of people desperate to experience God."
p.101 - "The more honest, the more raw, the more stripped down we made it, the more people loved it... All we cared about was trying to teach & live the way of Jesus."
** the work of the cross is ongoing, day-to-day, in our heart, soul, mind & life.... it reminds us of our brokenness & dependence on God.
** salvation isn't just a "ticket to somewhere else"... it's a transformation to a new creation... eternity starts NOW! (not when we die)
p.110 - "It's possible for the cross to have done something for a person [salvation] but not in them [changed heart/life]." (bracketed, mine)
p.114 - "...our lives become so heavily oriented around the expectations of others that we become more & more like them, and less & less like ourselves. We become split."
p.114 - "...I had this person I knew I was made to be, yet it was mixed with all of these other...people. I wasn't measuring up to the image of the perfect person I had in my head."
p.116 - "If we don't know who we are, or where we're trying to go, we put the people around us in an uncomfortable position. They are doing the best they can with what they have..."
p.119 - "I cannot lead people somewhere I am not trying to go myself. I don't have to have arrived. I don't have to be perfect, but I do need to be on the path."
p.120 - "I say the system has to be changed. It has to be destroyed & replaced not with another system, but with an entirely new way of life. I see it happening, and it gives me great hope... I see honesty. I see people who want to be fully alive. I see people who want the life Jesus promises, & who are willing to let go of ego & prestige & titles to get it."
(this is very EC)
p.120 - "...very few people actually live from their heart."
p.128 - "...discussing the words of God, wrestling with what they meant, and what it means to live them out."
(I don't think we do enough of this. I don't, anyway. But, I want to!)
*** DEVOTION means you give up your whole life to be just like your "rabbi" (Jesus). You don't want to miss a thing He says or does. You follow Him everywhere & study His every move; you try to imitate Him in all areas of your life. ***
p.131 - "Jesus calls the not-good-enoughs" (to be disciples/followers) **
p.131 - "The rabbi (Jesus) believes you can do what He does. He thinks you can be like Him."
p.134 - "God believes that people are capable of amazing things."
p.139 - "It wasn't so much what he was saying, as it was the place he was coming from. The beginning premise seemed that we are bad & don't do enough, & if we are made to feel guilty enough about it, then we will change our behaviour...
I don't think this is what Jesus had in mind."
(This reminds me of several churches I've attended... the guilt manipulation & shame was so rampant...)
p.139 - "...it is possible for religious leaders to actually get in the way of people entering into the life of God." (Matthew 23:13)
p.140 - "...this new way of life involves a constant, conscious decision to keep dying to the old so that we can live in the new." ('...to live is Christ')
p.141 - "...the issue is my learning who this person is who God keeps insisting I ALREADY AM." (Phil.3:16)
p.142 - "It is letting what God says about us shape what we believe about ourselves."
** God's strength & power...not mine.
p.146 - "We can trust God's retelling of the story, or we can trust our telling of the story... Do we trust God's version of reality, or our own?"
p.149 - "The entire movement of the Bible is of a God who wants to be here, with His people."
p.151 - "It is trusting that I am loved. That I always have been. That I always will be. I don't have to do anything. I don't have to prove anything, or achieve anything, or accomplish one more thing. That, exactly as I am, I am totally accepted, forgiven, and there is nothing I could ever do to lose this acceptance."
p.159 - "God has given us power & potential & ability. God has given this power to us so that we'll use it well. We have choices about how we're going to use our power."
p.164 - "...people are rarely persuaded by arguments, but more often by experiences."
(this is very EC, too)
p.164 - "It is our turn to redefine & reshape & dream it all up again".
(I strongly disagree here... God dreamed up the way we do church --the basics of it, anyway-- and how the Christian life is to be lived out. We can't dream up something new to change what God has already put in place.)
p.165 - "God chooses people to be used to bless other people."
p.165 - "God blesses everybody. People who don't believe in God. People who are opposed to God. People who do violent, evil things."
(Again, I strongly beg to differ! What about Soddom & Gomorrah? Did God bless them?)
p.165 - "The church doesn't exist for itself; it exists to serve the world."
*** p.167 - "...when there is an agenda, it isn't really love, is it?" ***
p.167 - "...we have to rediscover Love. Period."
p.167 - "...love that loves because it is what Jesus teaches us to do... We have to surrender our agendas."
p.168 - "The way of Jesus is a journey, not a destination."
2 comments:
I liked reading all of these quotes. And even some of your agreements and disagreements. Although, you shouldn't be intimidated by Bell's radical ideals. He is a very competent person, and God did give men proper instruction on leading a Christian life, it's just the christian who can't let go of ego enough to live it unconditionally. I know most people would consider him a heretic, because his use of universalism, and awareness. but just consider this.. Early Orthodox Christians knew of no other way besides universalism, of course they didn't call it anything, they saw it as the truth of the word they lived by. Until the church decided it was too dangerous for men to think this way (although it was obviously the truth) so they gave it a name, and did what they always do and shout heresy from the mountains even though this was proper and common belief. to be ex-communicated from the church back then, would mean "universalism" would be gone because of MEN. So consider who are the false teachers. It is no matter because Jesus saved the world, he draws all men into him, and God has given him ALL men. So whether or not we agree, we are all in the radiating love of Christ, and if we haven't accepted him, this doesn't matter to him because we will in time. Let's talk about the famous mis-interpreted "lake of fire". Now, it says the un-righteous and unbelievers will be sent into the lake of fire, the second death. Now, the word they used was torment, but was translated from the greek word basanizo, which mean to touch with a touchstone, as to make pure. So, the translation alone makes no sense, because torment has nothing to do with making something firm, for instance a sword (like a blacksmith). And think about it, you die, and if you don't accept the truth of Christ, you're granted a second death. That's two negatives, now I'm no math expert, but I do know that two negatives always equals a positive.
god bless.
Nice comment and you make some excellent points. I happen to be reading "Velvet Elvis" right now and I want to talk about your comments on Bell's supposed use of universalism. I've seen him castigated by those of a more Calvinist slant for this very thing several times. And, if all I did was read the quotes they show, I'd agree with them. About him being universalist, nothing else though. Here's the thing, in reading the book and seeing the quotes in context, it's not universalism. It's Arminianism. An altogether different animal. Being one myself, I can say that we believe that salvation is available to everyone and it's up to the individual to accept it. We're very big on free will, you know. Not really commenting on the validity of the universalist doctrine, just pointing out what I think is a misconception.
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